When exactly did Super 8 "disappear?"

[tfunch24]

I was born in 1977 so I only vaguely remember when Super 8 was still used as the medium for recording home movies. I've read that the "early 1980s" was the time period in which S8 film disappeared from the eye (and marketplace) of the general public. When was the last year that S8 gear and film could be found on the shelves of retailers such as Sears or Wal-Mart? 1982? 1983?

A bit of an annoying question, but I've always wondered when video became the undisputed king of the home movie format. My family purchased its first camcorder in 1985 and the "newest" home movies that we have on Super 8 date around 1983.

Tom

[MikeBrantley]

I don't know specific dates, but your family's experience seems typical of most general consumers out there. When Super 8 slipped from being a mass, mainstream format for home movies, it seemed to happen rapidly.

Much more rapidly than video's technical rise, unfortunately. Camcorders of the time were big, bulky and of low quality. Nothing like the little digital wonders even some of us film nuts find occasion to use now.

[MovieStuff]

When I was just out of high school, I worked in a pretty high end local camera store. We had reps from Kodak and all the other manufacturers coming in and out on a daily basis so I was privy to some interesting "inside" info about the history of different products, both film and camera related. Here's my take on it:

The advent of home video was the best thing that ever happened to super 8 at the time.

The reason? Companies don't operate in a vacuum. They are constantly looking down the road at what the competition is producing. The reason we even had super 8 sound film was because home video was well known to be in development. It didn't just "pop up" on the shelves one day. It had been in the works for years and had actually been released as far back as the early 70's, though not as VHS or Betamax but in a funky reel to reel form as well as a cassette format that eventually became 3/4 Umatic for the broadcast industry.

The Super 8 camera manufacturers knew that the video cameras and recorders were getting smaller, better and cheaper and responded with something that would compete; hence, super 8 sound carts and cameras.

But it's what happend AFTER the advent of home video that really benefits us now. Prior to home video, the features and QC on most super 8 cameras was pretty iffy since they were mostly being used for home movies and the user wasn't very sophisticated. But the vacuum left by the rush to video told the super 8 manufacturers that the only people still buying their product were:

A) People that wanted special effects and things not yet available in video

and

B) Serious film makers that weren't shooting home movies but more serious attempts at story telling.

Some companies like Bauer knew video was coming and started releasing more sophisticated cameras even earlier than the advent of home video in a "first blood" attempt to control their market share. After all, anyone that already had a significant investment in a home super 8 camera with a ton of features would be hard pressed to walk away from such equity, even for a new fangled video camera. So it was all about getting people to spend their money on super 8 cameras first, to delay the eventual conversion to video.

Still, I think it is fair to say that, had home video not posed a serious threat to the super 8 manufacturers, most would have been content to keep churning out little featureless boxes with plastic lenses that only shot at 18fps. But the video wave made super 8 manufactuers shift into high gear, resulting in a sudden burst of technological advances that we still benefit from today everytime we buy a used Canon 1014XLS or Nizo on ebay.

Out with a bang, not a whimper. And when the next video "format de jour" goes stale due to lack of interest, I doubt there will be entire discussion boards dedicated to its virtues. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Roger

[JIM DUNN]

Seems like the first home video recorders I remember seeing reviewed in magazines came out around 1977, 78 or so. I just remember that they were comprised of a camera which was corded to a little recording deck, and the I think the black and white ones went for around $1,300 and shortly after that I remember color cams going for around $2,600. I remember kind of slobbering over the magazine pics, and sort of hopefully dreaming that the images they produced would compare to the Super 8s I was using, but the first time I saw the stuff, I just totally forgot about them. I loved making MOVIES, and that didn't look anything like movies. But, as the prices fell, the public went nuts over them---not interested in quality, just idiot-proofing the operation.

[BolexPlusx]

My first camera croaked in 1987, which put me out of business filmwise for a couple of years, but between 1979 when I bought it and then I never had problems finding whatever gear I needed in the photo departments of local department stores.

I think about it now; a camera, a projector, reels and cans, a splicer and splicing cement, countless rolls of film and a viewer. Not only can't I buy any of this stuff locally any more but the department store in question become a Home Depot years ago.

If it wasn't for the Internet we'd all be high and dry these days!

Oh, and by the way: I seem to recall hearing in about 1982 how nobody would be shooting film very shortly...........

[MikeBrantley]

Out with a bang... Roger, I like your take on it!

[tfunch24]

Hmm. So S8 and video coexisted on the general market at least until 1987. I suppose the situation was analagous to audio cassettes and CDs today--go into any Sam Goody, Tower, or FYE and you'll find most of the floor space dominated by rack after rack of CDs with a small dwindling display space in the back devoted to cassettes.

I wonder if it was possible to grab some great deals on some good cameras and projectors; I can imagine stores selling their dwindling S8 gear at reduced prices so they could clear space for the new video camcorders and whatnot.

With the advent of eBay and other online auction houses, it seems impossible to get a good camera and/or projector for next-to-nothing. Oh, well.

Tom

[Nigel]

I frequent some very odd places in my travels. And on one or more occasion I have been through Moscow, Idaho. There is a small drug store that to this day--well at least earlier this Summer still stocked S8 film (Plus-X and K40) as well as splice tapes.

So, I would say that Super8 still does exist in some corners of the country to this day side by side with video tapes.

I did ask how long they would keep stocking their small line and the attendant just looked at me blankly, sooooooo???????

PS--I am still looking for other S8 Mountaineers to do some climbing with.

[Mike Buckles]

tfunch, that is exactly what happened to me..I was in college, and in 1982, I went to a camera store...had had my eye on a Bell and Howell MS 45 for a long time....and suddenly, the camera store discounted it pretty good...with the computer special effects module, it normally retailed for about 1000.00...but I remember getting it for around 650-700. A nice price!!! And I remember as late as 84-85 still being able to buy super 8 sound film at Osco Drug or Walgreens...Mike

[TA152]

Just adding a few Hi- (low?) lights.

I bought my first s8 cam + gear from a friend in 1980. He dumped the S8 in favour of a HUGE 2 piece JVC Cam / corder (=back pack size) offering the poorest image quality I ever saw.

This was the first time I saw the "terminator" and actually became aware of it.

During the ?80s it did not make an noticeable impact on S8 activities in our local S8 (in the ?90s S8/video) club.

During the ?90s video got more hold on it but about 30-60% of the productions were still on S8 and to this day about 1/3 is still S8.
Have to add that the most dedicated s8 users are not quite young anymore.

In the last half of the ?80s the photo shops started to empty their shelves from S8 gear and some of my friends made VERY good deals on complete expensive cams with all-you-would-ever-need kits.

One actually bought a complete brand new Bauer 715 with a minor problem (a loose part blocking the gears) in a complete kit for about $50. Became very surprised whe he found 10 K40 sound films in the case as well.

In the early ?90s I bought 6 K40 60m sound carts for about $50.

I could buy S8 reasonably priced sound carts (about $15) in a local shop up to 1998 until the sound film went away and I can still buy silent carts locally in a different store. They will stock about 3-5 pieces typically.

The S8 did not go away over night. The video "hype" turned on quite slowly. There was not a lot of people who bought the early video cams in the ?s80 but no one bought the S8 cams anymore so the S8 thing slowly dried up.

I belive that most people expected more and better from the video than it actually offered but in the meantime the S8 was slowly dwindling, it never actually "died".

R

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 22, 2002 12:03 AM: Message edited by: S8 Booster ]</font>